AM: Congratulations on being the 2022 Michelin Guide Young Chef Award Winner and the first Black Michelin chef in NY which blows our minds even moreso that you are only the second Black chef in the US to do this! Honestly, we kept double checking ourselves in prep for this interview with you because we were shocked that it has been so few, but there we are! What does it feel like to win this award and in terms of representation, being able to have this distinction for yourself as well as for the restaurant that you are at?
CHEF CM: Well winning the award, to be honest, the Young Chef Award I had only heard about a day or 2 before the awards. I had never heard about it before. And then when I won, it was a complete surprise! I was just humbled and honored, mainly because so many of my peers and chefs that I look up to were also standing in this room and seeing me at that moment, so I just felt like that was just fucking cool to be honest! I mean to have all of those chefs looking at me when I was on that stage, that was just cool! For the Michelin Star too, me and Clay, I mean the whole team, but for us and the ownership, it was just like, what they went through with COVID and then closing down and then where I was at at that time and then kind of being in a position where I wasn’t sure what my next move was going to be. Just to see us put the work in for that year and a half, that validation and that visibility pushes everything. It means that what we’re doing is working and that the right people were seeing us, so that was awesome!
For me as a Black chef, that was also like a cherry on top, you know what I mean? It’s not like you’re looking to be the first or second of anything, it just kind of happens. But for me, it was kind of learning how to embrace it. Chefs and Black chefs that are older than me are looking at me like, “man, we did it!” Chefs that are younger than me are like, “how can I do it?” I’m just trying to learn how to embrace it and to be a resource which I think is the most important. Maybe it’s not full blown conversations or full blown FaceTime sessions with chefs, but it’s just about being available and a resource for questions or encouragement or just being somebody that they can see doing it so that they can do it! I mean winning it is great, the representation is great, and I’m honored to be someone to represent us in any kind of capacity that is in a positive way!
AM: Exactly!
To follow that up, to be a James Beard Finalist, that’s another one of those things that is so much of an honor. What does it mean to you to have this distinction also in terms of the recognition?
CHEF CM: I mean, it was great! I think that any chef that takes themselves seriously on any level whether it’s casual, fine dining, food trucks, or whatever – you take it serious. You put in a lot of work that goes into it, a lot of hours goes into it, and I think that some people may look at the last year and a half/two years of my journey and say, “ oh, it’s been so great – how does it feel?” For me, it felt like, finally! I’ve been doing this for all this time –
AM: So long!
CHEF CM: Yeah and it’s just the beginning. Some people don’t realize how many hours and how much time you put into something. So it’s just nice to be validated in any capacity – here’s this kid that’s at this restaurant that’s doing something that’s cool and good, had a good product, and they’re happy that I’m doing it. It’s encouraging – it encourages me to keep going. It encourages me to keep working as hard as we do. So that’s what it means the most to me.
AM: What I really love on your Instagram is that you talk about a lot of things. You talk about menu development and a number of nuts and bolts topics in the kitchen. For our readers that don’t know, what is menu development, what does it involve, and why is it so important?
CHEF CM: Well it’s hard! The reason why I share it is because – it’s been a new thing that I have been wanting to share because I think that some people have a misconception about how easy it is. I think that for me and having a small team, it’s just me. So it’s not like, oh does this taste good? It’s like, is it part of the vision, is it a part of who we are, is it on brand, and does it fit within our ethos? If we go here, where do we go from here? To constantly challenge yourself and your own ideas, it’s hard, you know what I mean?
AM: We love that you share it though, because, when people are thinking of a chef, they think of the restaurant and that there are partners and staff, but they don’t think about the hours, 14 hour days and these little things that you’re putting together to make a full picture. I think it’s awesome that you show it!
CHEF CM: Yeah!
I think that menu development is even something that I am just learning. I look at chefs that have been doing this for years! I reach out to them for advice and to see how they go about it. I think that the most important part about it is to just be curious about what you do, to be curious about food, and to continue to learn about food. I think that the hardest part of it is to continue to challenge yourself. Whether it’s your own ideas or old techniques that you have done before, and to not be too attached to a notion like, “we’re going to always cook the fish this way.” There may be a better way and you’re just going to need to be open minded to the journey of exploring, you know?
AM: Well, it’s interesting that you had a post recently that it is important to you that all of your dishes fall into your core values of good eats. What do you mean by that and what are those core values?
CHEF CM: When I worked at Eleven Madison Park, like Daniel Humm was kind of known for having 4 or 5 things that a dish had to have to fit in these boxes, which they don’t have to have – but that’s what he liked to say. For me, I am developing my own things for myself. So what I mean by that is – is it possible for a dish to go out as intended which is important. Is it meant to be cold – can it go out cold, is it meant to always go out hot? Some dishes, which sounds simple, but there are other factors with those dishes that we have to figure out in fine dining where you would know that it is not executable at this level. So being intentional is very important. Obviously, being very delicious is the most important. Is it visually appealing, but not to sacrifice if it is delicious or intentional, right? From there it’s, how does it make somebody feel inside when they eat it? Is it too spicy or spicy enough? Is it warm? Is it nostalgia? Is it a little thought provoking? Does it draw their memory? Those are the kinds of things that I focus on the most right now.
AM: What is an average day like for you at Clover Hill?
CHEF CM: Well it has changed so much now, I think that life now versus the first 8 months are so different that I feel like I should tell the story of how it was in the beginning beginning! But right now, it’s different. The learning curve right now is for me to learn to be an Executive Chef. That’s also what I want people to realize is that I teach my cooks that each level is a different learning curve. You’re a line cook, you’re a CDP, you’re a sous chef, you’re an Executive Sous Chef, you’re a CDC Executive Chef right, so now I’m like learning how to fall back a little bit and care about other things that I don’t know about. So right now, my day to day is still 12-14 hours but less cooking, more guiding, more teaching, more meetings with the managers and the ownership. We’re looking at how are we pushing this restaurant forward as far as cleanliness, design, organization, new plateware, new development, menu costing – for lack of a better word – visionary things.
AM: Yeah dealing with nuts and bolts of the business.
CHEF CM: As opposed to last year, I had less staff, I didn’t have a sous chef at the time. I was just cooking and keeping my head down and now I’m in the mode of focusing and actually running this restaurant as opposed to just working in the restaurant. Usually, the cooks' days start around 10 or 11am and they work until around midnight. My day starts around the same time and I work until around midnight/1am and then I do it all over again. The cooks right now, everyone on the staff, they work 4 days a week. I work a 5 day shift, they work a 4 day shift. I think that that’s a way that we try to give them a better live/work balance. Like you may work 4 long days, but you have 3 days off.
AM: Which is nice.
CHEF CM: Yeah it’s nice because it keeps you in that 40-50/hour range instead of that 60-70 hour range. So that’s what we’re trying to do right now. I know how mentally taxing that this job can be and I just want them to be able to be there when they are at work and to do the things that I need them to do. Then, they have enough time that they will be able to do what they need to do when they’re not here.