A few weeks ago, we headed to Chelsea Piers to the Careers Through Culinary Arts Program's 30th Anniversary Benefit to enjoy a staggering amount of top chefs that included David Bouley, Marcus Samuelsson, Jonathan Waxman, Eric Ripert, Maria Loi and Sarabeth Levine. They were joined by students from C-CAP who showcased their skills to guests who enjoyed some of the top restaurants in NYC.
We wanted to know more about C-CAP and the founder, Richard Grausman who took classes with James Beard. He trained and graduated with the Grand Diplôme from Le Cordon Bleu, Ecole de Cuisine. He was also the first exclusive representative of the school who trained people across the US and Canada in order to make them proficient.
We headed to the offices of C-CAP to find out about how his career, how this organization was created, the programs that were launched and how he works with chefs and other partners.
ATHLEISURE MAG: We have had the pleasure in talking with various voices in the culinary community from Chef Marcus Samuelsson to Will Blunt of StarChefs who have shared their work and support of C-CAP. We were so pleased to see how you have ensured that the culinary community continues to thrive by attending your 30th annual event a few weeks ago and it’s so fitting that we finally get to chat with you to find out more.
RICHARD GRAUSMAN: It was a wonderful event and we have had 21 events and that was an unusual one. 2 years ago, Jose Andres was our honoree and that was unique in its style because the room was filled with appreciation for what he has done philanthropically around the world. At our benefit this year, I felt the love and warmth for the program and the guests that were coming up with appreciation when my daughter’s video (PRESSURE COOKER Directed by Jennifer Grausman and Mark Becker, an Emmy nominated documentary about one of the C-CAP teachers Wilma Stephenson) ran and with the alumni expressing themselves. And after that video, there were alumni that were in the room that I have known for years. I know what the program has done for them, but they had never expressed it to me and they came up to me empowered by what they had seen and they just opened up to me. It was just so heartwarming.
AM: You have had a phenomenal background and prior to launching C-CAP, can you tell us what you were doing prior to launching this organization?
RG: I had been the representative of Le Cordon Bleu Paris for 15 years. I had originally gone to Paris to study cooking and become a chef – hopefully in a small mountain restaurant as I love to ski. I’ve always enjoyed skiing and cooking in my life. But I found while I was in Paris that I was too slow to become a chef and I was single-minded. I wasn’t a multitasker. In the process, I taught myself skills that I saw that chefs needed and I realized that I could teach others. I told that to the school that instead of being a chef of a restaurant, I wanted to teach.
Timing is everything and when I came back from a ski trip, I was almost finished with the program and Madame Elizabeth Brassart (owner of Le Cordon Bleu) asked me if I wanted to go to Cleveland to teach a course for her. This was because the Vice President of the Higbee department store had asked for them to send a chef; however, they couldn’t send one since the chef didn’t speak English and she knew I was interested in teaching and the chef thought that I was very good. It started 15 years of teaching French cooking around the country and Canada. I never thought that I wanted to do anything else. It was so gratifying to teach and to have students – men and women, come up to me saying that their spouse loved them more because of their tartar tine or their kids ate carrots for the first time. But then I left the school and wrote a cookbook and I was traveling around the country promoting the book and a vision of what America ate, really hit me. It was fried chicken, hamburgers and pizza. I thought that I could perhaps expand that palette and thinking about the best way to do it, I felt that I had to get in with the schools and get children while they were young and to broaden their palettes, broaden their minds. Because if they leave school, I found that the average adult that if they didn’t like something, they wouldn’t try it.
I wanted to start in elementary school, and I wanted to teach sensory evaluation, and nothing is better to do that with than food, because you use all of your senses. Once you start doing that, you can teach nutrition, then in middle school I thought that you could use foods from around the world to teach geography, history and social studies and in high school, if you had a student with a palette and a passion, it would be easy to train them for the industry. I had a book that I thought was readable at the high school level and I knew that Home Economics was in terrible shape and I thought that by teaching the teachers some of the recipes in my book, to expose their students before they left high school that that would be my goal before I went into my first classroom.
I went to the Board of Education, they liked my idea and they said, “we don’t have any money.” I asked if I could go into one of their classes and they said certainly. I went into one of the classes and that day I saw that half the class was making bread and the other half were Haitian students learning English. I went around the classroom opening drawers and cabinets and they were empty. So I knew it was what the school system had said, they didn’t have any money. I talked to the teacher and said that I had been teaching French cooking for the last 15 years and asked if there was something that I could do for them, what it would be? He laughed and said, “I spent my own money just to buy the flour today for the bread.” So I knew that they needed a lot of help. That day, I went home and I called up many of the manufacturers that I had been dealing with for 15 years. I let them know that I wanted to help the schools and asked if they could help me and they said yes. They donated products, pots and pans, spices – all sorts of things.
I brought the teachers together and I taught them in the morning and then I watched them cook in the afternoon. It showed me the level of proficiency of the teachers. A few were quite competent, but the majority were not. I went to the French Culinary Institute which is now the International Culinary Center and I asked them if they would provide a training program for the teachers, which they did. I went into the classroom and started to demonstrate for the students and when I saw looking at the students – some of them were sleeping, zoning out and there were a couple of people who were bright eyed, attentive and watching me. I watched them cook and a few were very excited and would come up with their tart asking me how I liked it. I let them know it was good, asked how their parents liked it (they did) and then I would ask them what they wanted to do after they graduated and that’s when I found out that the students who were in these classes were the students that the system had failed. Most of them had D’s and F’s at best. They had no preparation for college or a career. I asked them if they had ever thought about cooking and they said, “no – can I?”. I went to a dinner at a small French restaurant on Lexington Ave and I asked the owner about jobs for high school graduates and what the opportunity would be. He laughed at me and told me to look at his kitchen. He was importing labor from South America and Asia and he’d much prefer to have a NY kid that spoke English. I asked what he needed. He said that he needed people that showed up on time and that he would teach them. I asked about knife skills. He said that if he had knife skills, he wouldn’t have to start him on the dishwasher. So that was the beginning of C-CAP.
Within the next 3 years, during the summer time, I would send a student out and a chef would say, “yes the student shows up on time, but when he gets through what I have asked to do, he goes out for a smoke and sits down. I need him to come up to me and say, ‘what’s next chef?’” They needed them to be eager to work. So I built that into the program. Then I would hear, “yes, they show up on time, they are very eager and asks what’s next, but they’re not thinking. He’s got to be inquisitive and to ask why I am using one thing versus another – he has to want to learn.” So I built that into the program. Third year, we were in Chicago. I always went to the competitions that we would have. We would have chefs as the judges and I would take them out to dinner. One night, I took out one chef that was a judge with a director from the high school program and Martha said to Richard, “why don’t you take our kids as you used to take them in the summer?” and he said, “well you’re teaching them the wrong things.” He explained that he had a boy the previous summer that there was a mess and he asked him to get a mop to clean it up. The student said that he didn’t do floors and Martha said, that he shouldn’t have to. That’s when I saw the disconnect between the school and the industry.
The next day, I was handing out scholarships and I was saying that one of the biggest complaints in the industry was that people were coming out of Culinary Institute of America and Johnson & Wales University and they didn’t want to peel carrots or chop onions – they just wanted to be a chef. I let the students know that I knew that they wanted to be Executive Chefs and own their own restaurants and even chains. I told them that if you have your own restaurant and the dishwasher doesn’t show up, then you will be doing the dishes. If your janitor doesn’t show up, you will be cleaning toilets. I let them know that if they didn’t know how to wash dishes or clean toilets, that they needed to go home that night and have their parents show them how. I wanted them to be able to be prepared for anything that would come up. Well, I was shocked that a school board member, a minister, a parent and a teacher all came to me after the scholarship breakfast and thanking me for telling the kids what I did. I asked them what they were talking about and they said, “you are telling them what life is about.” I asked why they didn’t do that. They said they were afraid to. I didn’t know what they were afraid of and I investigated it. Because of the drop out rate in Chicago and DC at that time was so high, parents and administrators were telling their kids that if they stayed in high school, they wouldn’t have to do what they did. The administration would agree with this line of thinking and tell them that they would be paid more. So students were coming out – and this is still true today as I heard about this in Chicago, they’re telling and expecting students that come from their culinary programs to have managerial jobs and not entry-level jobs. Students come out saying that they’re not going to take minimum wage, don’t want to wash dishes or chop vegetables. They want to manage. If you’re not prepared to enter the industry, you’re not going to go anywhere. So that’s the essence of what we do. We work with the teachers to train them in the few skills necessary to get started. Where the school system wants them to teach A-Z, lobster, steak, fish, eggs, salad – everything. They only need to know how to chop, dice, slice, keep things clean and neat, be safe at the workplace, show up on time, want to work, want to learn and have basic knowledge of ingredients and equipment. We try to get the teachers focused on that. They have the students from 1 – 3 years so they can work on that. They can reinforce wearing your apron, watching your hands and other things that take time for them to learn.
We see them when they come to our competitions or for our job training for summer jobs, job shadows to expose them to the industry. We have a student that is already eager, interested and inquisitive. When they leave us and go into the industry, the industry is saying wow – send us more. When Marcus came in and I encouraged him to take on the Co-Chairmanship of the program of the organization. His view was to expand upon what I started and he wanted to reach and train more students as the industry is in need of this. That’s where we are now. We’re trying to figure out how to expand on what we already do and we do well.
AM: How many people are currently in this program?
RG: It depends on how you look at it. I look at it as we have 200 teachers, each teacher has 50 students. That’s 10,000 students. I think the organization uses the number of 17,000 which may be when we’re thinking of the upper level including the 4 years. Those are 10,000 students that the teachers have and the teachers range from poor to excellent so the effect that they have on their student varies. But they all have an effect on their students. Out of that, we see the students that have expressed an interest in knowing more beyond the classroom – shadows, summer training, internships, college advice or our competitions. You go from 10,000 down to a couple of thousand to a couple hundred that get scholarships. There are many hundreds that go into the industry for summer jobs. It’s on the level of interest, focus – but we have worked with over 300,000 students in the 30 years and probably have given $60 million dollars in scholarships and then an untold number of jobs! Then we follow those students if they stay in touch with us, if they have a problem and want to change jobs or they haven’t had a raise in 3 years – what do I do? They tell us if they want to go to Spain and learn something. All of those things, we have the ability to help them with.
AM: How do you assess which high schools you go into?
RG: Initially, I had 3 areas that I was interested in. NY, Chicago and San Francisco. I started in NY and then people heard about what we were doing. I was on NBC for the first time about our program and the next night, I got a call from Washington, DC from the head of Home Economics and they wanted the program. I asked them how many schools that they had and I was looking to go to a community with at least 14-15 schools. For the manufacturers to be able to give the equipment, one school wouldn’t be enough. I went to DC next and then I heard from a teacher in Arizona and another in Norfolk, VA who had been at a teacher’s conference and had heard about it. They wanted it. As long as the school number was sufficient, I went and taught the teachers, I brought the chefs in local areas in and we started the program. It was very easy within 5 years. I had 7 programs, but it was very hard to maintain and grow the program because when I put it all together it worked. To keep it going, I needed volunteers and eventually to keep it going, the volunteers needed to be paid and then we needed a staff and then needed an office. So, the numbers that we effect year after year didn’t change much, the scholarships grew – the degree that we worked with the students improved. The level of services that we gave them grew. Initially, I thought that if I gave a scholarship to a student to CIA would change their lives. In some cases it didn’t change it for the better. I took a student out of their community and threw them into a new community, they had no way to adjust, understand, they didn’t know how to get help with their schoolwork – they’re grades dropped and they lost their scholarship. I had to find ways to mitigate that. I had students going to community college before going to the CIA because their reading and math was at a level that they couldn’t do the work easily.
I’ve had people on campus where they were the only black student that walked onto the campus. So once I had a number of students that were on campus, I got them to form a club to greet the others to work with the campus. So C-CAP students got a name and they were proud to be C-CAP students. Finding what the problem is and finding a solution for it is how my mind worked. The program has grown organically because of that. I saw a problem, I would address it and try to solve it and by solving it, I was able to move people.
AM: So who are groups or services that you work or partner with frequently?
RG: There are a number of organizations that do similar work. We’re not actively working with them. I did work with the American Culinary Federation for a number of years in the beginning because their chefs and association needed credits for them to continue in that group. One of the ways that they were able to get that credit was to provide their time in their schools and I took advantage of that and their members loved it as they were able to be judges. The organization itself, I tried to work with and I became their School to Work Chairman – I wasn’t able to get them to move in the direction that I saw necessary. So I haven’t been active with the organization for 15 years. The National Restaurant Association also wanted to work with us years ago, but they wanted us to work for them. The partnership wasn’t in the way that they saw things. They saw it their way and wanted us to work with them. They did a lot of good, their programs both the ACF and the NRA affect schools and students, but I don’t see them working with the populations that we work with. Many of them saw how effective competitions were so they did it too. When you offer nationwide competitions and you have affluent schools and affluent students in those areas, they’re competing against our students from poor schools and poor backgrounds, our students don’t make it to the top. In our competitions, our students make it to the top and beyond. We can focus on a certain population to what I think is doing important work and I don’t concern myself with the whole country, where they do.
AM: It’s an interesting point about how C-CAP focuses on the skills needed and that you serve a specific community in order to have them excel in the culinary industry. When we were at your 30th Anniversary Benefit, it was a pleasure to see C-CAP students working side by side with some of the most esteemed chefs who own their restaurants as well as being food TV personalities. Seeing the pride and how inspired they were was amazing. It had to be a boost to their confidence to see people enjoying their food and being in that environment. That’s a resume builder.
RG: Yes, I learned very early when I was teaching. The importance of teaching is to empower others. I found ways to empower housewives so that they could talk to their butcher and all of a sudden relationships were being built! They would come to me and say, “oh Mr. Grausman, what you told me about that leg of lamb – I went to my butcher and told him and he looks at me like I am a professional!” I told them just a few words and it made all the difference! That’s the same thing that I did at C-CAP. By teaching the students certain techniques, that when a professional chef saw them accomplish those things, they were impressed at their capability.
One example at a competition was that I had the Executive Chef of the Four Seasons Hotel in NY as a judge and she came to me and said, “Richard, that young man is really great! Do you think that I can have him work for me?” I told her to give me her card and we gave him a scholarship to go to the French Culinary and she hired him. He would call me everyday and say, “Mr. Grausman, I have to make a salad today and I don’t know how to do it.” I told him that in my book, there are 3 great salads and to make one of those. This went on for months and then the chef called me up and said that she had to let him go. Since they had a union, other people were complaining that he wasn’t doing what everyone else was and that was because when I knew Damien in highs school, he was taking care of 2 younger siblings and one parent had died and one was ill. He was working at Kentucky Fried Chicken closing it at 2am and mopping the floors and his teacher had taught him the skills that were involved in our competitions and he was spectacular at it. That’s why the chef wanted him and I empowered our students to impress these chefs to get into the kitchens with the exception of him because of the unions.
Every kitchen that our kids went into even though they weren’t up to the standards that the chefs thought they were after seeing them. They were capable of learning and being trained. I got them into the kitchen. Those were the little secrets that I used to focus on because you want teachers to be able to effectively teach their students these skills. You can’t ask them to do more than what is realistically achievable and that is what is the problem with our education today.
They set goals and standards that aren’t achievable because what happened before they got into the 9th, 10th and 11th grade wasn’t achieved. So, if you are reading at a 3rd grade level in the 9th grade and you’re supposed to be reading at a 10th grade by the time you’re out – kids drop out because they can’t do it.
AM: It becomes frustrating!
RG: Exactly, unless you go back down, and solve those problems at the time, you’re not going to reach them. The first year that I was doing this, I was asked to be on a council as an advisor for the Board of Ed and I ran into a situation where a student in their junior year was given a scholarship to the Natural Gourmet School here in NY. I followed up in the summer and asked how he was doing. I was told, “Richard it was very strange. In the first class, he was fantastic. I had him come up because his knife skills were so good that I had him demonstrate for the rest of the class. But then he didn’t show up the next day.” I asked what she said to the rest of the class when she let them go. She explained that she had asked them to read chapters 1-5 and that they would work on it the next day. I called his high school teacher and asked why she thought that the student didn’t show and relayed what happen at the NGS and she said, “oh that’s it. He doesn’t read.” A junior in high school doesn’t read. I wanted to know how he was able to be a junior unable to read. His teacher explained that he was able to maneuver around reading by opting out. So as I sat on this council, I asked how they could allow a student to get that far and not read. They explained that I didn’t understand how they have kids attending the schools who have various language problems and they have to move them on. I believe that after 3rd grade, if they don’t read, then before they move on you have to make sure that they do. Those on the council said that that is tough because you have to keep them with their age group and they felt that because they have to teach them math and history, it was better to continue with them moving on from grade to grade. But the answer is if they can’t read you need to keep them reading, reading, reading because they can’t learn anything regardless of the subject. I don’t know what the situation is like today – if they’re still dropping out because they can’t read. But this was back in 1990 and to me, that’s the major problem and you solve it. How do you solve it? You find all different ways that you can teach them – there’s Sesame Street – education is something that I am very interested and passionate about. I am frustrated because I don’t often see the imagination and creativity in solving problems. They identify problems and identify solutions but when those solutions don’t work, they will find another solution – find out the root of the problem and why those solutions don’t work.
Hopefully, one of the reasons why I established competitions was that teachers weren’t teaching the skills necessary to get the jobs. The curriculum was so vast, they couldn’t repeat something. You can’t learn knife skills without repeating. You can’t learn how to make a sauce properly without repeating it. There are certain things that you need in cooking competitions. Teachers that go through our competitions will tell me, “Richard, thank you so much. I never thought that I could get one of my kids a scholarship to Johnson and Wales and you gave me the other opportunity – but it was hard. I had to work with them after school." I asked why they didn’t work with them during class, and why don’t you work with all of your students and not just 1 or 2 of them? They explained that they couldn’t give knives to some of the students or that they weren’t interested. So they take the ones that are and train them. For years, I have worked on ways to get teachers to be able to focus on hard skills and soft skills. The only way that I could get them to do it is through the competitions. I have now been working on something that I called, C-CAP Approved. It’s an assessment, skills that I first gave to the teachers that they should work on. I have found that the teachers would like to do that, but the administration won’t let them. So we’re working on NY now and we’ve evaluated their benchmarks and in doing that, we cut down the things that students need to learn. Now they want us to do an assessment test and if that goes through, we’ll have the piece that I’ve been visualizing for 15 years which will be mandated to the teachers as what has to be taught. These few skills that will be meaningful to the industry. If I can pull that in NY, I can roll that out. When I look at the students that are in those classrooms now, if the teachers said we’re all chopping and who will be the fastest and to develop a bit of the sport of it by getting them excited to perfect their knife skills. Americans in today’s youth, if they don’t get it right away, they drop it. If you come to a competition, we do a dish that has turned potatoes. Chefs would ask me why I would teach it because they don’t do that anymore and if they do, they get them from Mexico. I said it was there because the average teenager will try to do something and then quit. But if they stick with it long enough to turn a potato, there is nothing that you can give them that will take more time and patience so I’m not afraid of them quitting on you. They will work. It’s a vehicle to achieve a certain result. It’s to teach repetition and willingness to do something. I have been using the same recipes for competition for a while. We changed from salmon and beurre blanc to poached chicken to a sautéed chicken that we use now. The dessert was always crepes pastry cream and chocolate sauce – it still is. The teachers will say, “Oh Richard, can’t we change the competition recipes. We’re so sick of it.” I tell them that you can’t get sick of it because the students can’t get sick of it. If they’re a chef in a restaurant and they’re making this chicken dish on their menu, It has to be made good or better each time that they make it. They can’t get tired of making it and they have to find something in it that drives them on.
When all of your students are making the chicken perfectly or the crepes perfectly, I will consider changing it. Some years the teachers focus on the crepes and they come out thin and beautiful and I’ll begin to think about changing it and then the next year, they’re coming out thick. The chefs that come to judge they see the techniques that the students have to do to create these dishes and they appreciate it. They say, “you’re old-time but it’s good because they are learning their basics.” In time, I won’t be here and somebody else will come and the skills may change because the industry is changing all the time. There may be skills that we should be teaching for those that are going into Fast Casual to other ends of the business. I want to know what those are and if they are teachable at the high school level then we should do that. Basically, what we’re doing is teaching discipline, attention, focus, sanitation safety and you can’t teach this overnight.
AM: It has to be a habit and routine.
RG: Exactly! Knock on wood, we've been lucky and our kids who have those basics and put them in the hands of a good chef who is interested in mentoring, they go from dishwasher to sous chef very quickly. Some chefs just told me that they have some of our kids and one of them is the youngest female sous chef and their corporation. They learn quickly and they’re not interested in looking at their watch. Even when they’re leaving, they’re asking if there is anything that they can do as they’re eager. That attitude and interest is golden.
AM: Clearly, you have been a mentor to a number of chefs, who are 3 people that you feel were your mentors that have shaped you?
RG: Well, I think of 2 or 3 people that come to mind and there are a lot of chefs that I respect in this industry. But Jacques Pépin when I was a teacher, he was a teacher also who taught all over the country. We would teach in the same cities, but never met each other until 10 years later. When I got to see him work and saw his books, he is one of the finest teachers that I have ever met. His ability to make things look easy is something that I use and learn to pass onto my students.
Daniel Boulud is a chef that is very dedicated to French cooking but he has adapted techniques to American tastes but has kept a level of excellence that in my mind is very important. He is a wonderful mentor. What he has done with Ment’or a non profit organization of chefs to help younger chefs – I commend him immensely on that. We have worked with him and Ment’or on a number of their projects and many of our students have gotten scholarships.
Marcus – when I first met Marcus, I saw a potential as a role model for many of our students mainly because he is African Swedish, but he has the ability to be a mentor to a number of people. He has a personality and way to inspire young people. I am hopeful that as he gets more time to focus on this that that will translate immensely.
I am on Facebook until 2 o’clock at night and my wife gets upset and will ask if I’m still on it. I let her know that I am talking to a student that I haven’t spoken to in 20 years. I have a relationship where they talk to me as an equal. I sort of try to advise them on a level that is meaningful to them and they open up to me. I am white and they may be black or Hispanic and I know what they have gone through because I read their essays and I hear about the difficult childhood that they have had and the way that they have been mistreated in their lives. I understand what they have gone through but I can’t understand exactly what they have gone through. I can picture it, I can see it many many times in many ways. I don’t know if I could have gone through what they went through. For them it was life, they survived life and when I have been able to open the door, make an introduction or point them in the right direction – it has been life-changing to them and easy for me. They have gone through the hard things and I am using things that are easy for me to do for them and it changes lives. That’s a great combination. When I thought that there was nothing else that I could do in life but to teach and get enjoyment there, what I have been doing for the last 30 years has been life-changing and is really powerful. I wish more people who get wealthy and retire would not retire from life but would use their expertise to find a way to give back. At all levels – banking, stocks, football – mentorship can change lives and if you have gone through it yourself, you have a lot to give and it’s not hard for you to do. You’re an expert at it. It’s hard to get people to that point sometimes.
I was fortunate to win the President’s Service Award and I met a lot of people and I saw a lot of people who aren’t doing much with their expertise and their money besides playing golf and that’s a shame. The gratification that one gets is better to help then to take. It’s a simple truth. But unless you do it, you won’t know.
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Read the March Issue of Athleisure Mag and read Fueling the Culinary Arts with Richard Grausman in mag.
