When it comes to food, we all have our favorites from sides, entrees, desserts, sauces and more. We caught up with Chef Brandon Collins who is the Mustard Sommelier of Maille, a heritage Dijon brand which also includes an assortment of mustards, vinegars etc. He told us about what his job entails, how he stays up on mustards and their variants as a whole and also shares the culinary history of this brand! He also provides insights into the healthy aspects of it as well as how it is more of a condiment and a phenomenal ingredient to use when cooking a number of your favorite foods or even enjoying it with quality ice cream!
ATHLEISURE MAG: So when did you realize that you wanted to be a chef?
CHEF BRANDON COLLINS: That’s a long one. I would like to say that I traveled to the South of France and I walked on the beaches and I had these amazing epiphanies, but honestly, the deal was, I grew up in the Midwest and I grew up in Dayton, Ohio. Basically, my Grandmother – both of them, were amazing cooks and I grew up eating really good food and realizing that at the worst times in my life, food kind of brought people together. That really ignited something in me and I realized that being around food always brought us from the farthest walks of life. If my family was away and nowhere near me, unfortunately, due to a death in the family or something – everyone could rejoice over whatever plate we were having regardless of whatever we were going through. That kind of really started everything for me.
Not a lot of kids in my area or in my school were going to culinary school to be a chef and the “rebel” in me thought that I wanted to do something that not everyone else was doing. I’m very stubborn, I get that from my mother. When I put my mind to something, I do it. So I started working at a concert venue back home called the Nutter Center which is attached to Wright State University. worked there and then I worked at Skyline Chili and I loved being able to work when I wasn’t behind a desk or a computer. That’s what really sold me 100% on it! I mean Skyline, I ate that way more then I should have –it’s good stuff!
AM: Um yeah, when you said the name, a smile and memories came together! We’re based in New York, but I had to tell the team about the beauty that is Skyline Chili. We’ve literally remade recipes to get that same test as most of our team is from the east coast so they had no idea what I was talking about!
CHEF BC: There’s something about Skyline Chili that people either love or hate– so the fact that I found another Skylinelover is a beautiful thing!
AM: Absolutely! So how would you define your cooking style?
CHEF BC: I would probably say honestly that from the get-go, I have always been very interested in the science of food. Understanding the whys and not so much the hows. So a lot of my style is driven by why do I do this and why do I do that? Why do I grill a steak as opposed to sear-ing it? Why do I like sous vide? Those are the things that are really really interesting to me. For me, it’s fundamentally driven, seasonal New American and I usually tend to focus on local and sustainable. I live in the Hudson Valley so I have an abundance, a bounty of produce and meats to work with. So that has always been the driving force behind everything that I have done culinarily.
AM: What led you to coming to Maille?
CHEF BC: So my background is in fine dining. I worked in fine dining prior to joining a company called Sodexo initially actually. That was because we had just started a family and I needed to go from working about 100 - 110 hours a week at my previous job to being able to make a kind of shift. So, I started working with Sodexo and the parent company, Unilever was my client. I then started a couple of years later working for Unilever prop-er and Maille being one of my brands, I had the opportunity to being able to start working with this Dijon mustard brand that I have been working with my entire career and it just so happened to be that I was almost at the right place and the right time. I had the confidence of my line managers who said, “hey, this is the guy for the job.”Luckily, I was given the job of MustardSommelier and having the ability to train and to figure out all of that!
AM: Can you give us some history about the brand? It’s been around since the 1700’s which is just amazing to think about!
CHEF BC: Basically, the brand truly started around 1720 with Antoine-Claude Maille and basically, the story goes, there was a plague and he was a Master Vinegar Maker. The idea was that during this plague there were these 4 thieves that had been captured and they realized that they had been utilizing a vinegar mixture that was allowing them to kind of go into people’s houses, steal from them and leave without them getting sick! What ended up happening and this is a part of the story – it’s hard to find the actual story to see if this is true, but as it goes, they were sentenced to death by burning and in order to get a lighter sentence, they gave up their vinegar recipe. Then they were actually hung instead of being burned. Which is always fun right?
Basically, he was given the rights to this and we began making “The Vinegar of the 4 Thieves” and it helped through the plague. In 1747, Maison Maille was actually founded and we became the official supplier of the court of King Louis XV at that point in time. We also opened the very first Maille Boutique in Paris during that time as well. In 1760, we became the very official suppliers in the courts of France, Austria, Hungary and Russia. That’s really cool. In 1830, we were also named the privileged supplier to the Queen of England. We were one of the very few non-British brands at that point in time, that were invited to be a supplier to the Queen. In 1845, we opened our boutique in Dijon and that’s whenever we started creating super creative storefronts and things along that line. As time has gone on and we were a supplier to Catherine the Great as well. It’s really cool because in our establishment in Dijon, we’ve been given through the division of antiquity through shipwrecks and things of that nature, actual mustard jars that were intended for Catherine the Great and Czars of Russia that had gone down. Whenever they had been found, they gave them back to us and it’s really really cool to be able to see the history and the different bottle shapes. To be able to see as we have gone on, starting out as a vinegar maker, becoming a mustard empire kind of cultish amazing high-quality brand. In ’96, we opened the boutique in Paris. We’ve been around for quite some time and it’s absolutely amazing to see all that we have been able to do. In theory, it’s 2 empires, 5 republics, 5 European conflicts, 2 World Wars and 5 currency conversions. It’s been a while!
AM: That’s so crazy! First of all, love a good True Crime tale and although I know this is more of an “as the story goes,” – the True Crime element was enjoyable and I didn’t expect you to come up with that, but that is fantastic! When you look at the website today, it has such a depth of an assortment from the vinegars, the oils, mustards, the cornichons and all of those things. How does the brand go about deciding what will be in the assortment from what will be in the main part of the line to other things that they may rotate in? Are you involved in any of that process?
CHEF BC: So, unfortunately, I’m not involved in any of that part of the process but my counterpart in Europe actually is. He sits with our leadership team so we have discussions along those lines on what is coming down the pike and do I have any input along that line. He actually overseas all of our boutiques and since we don’t have any in the US anymore, I’m kind of removed from that side of it. The main starter for any of those decisions that are made is quality. Is what we’re doing and what we’re purchasing or outsourcing, does it fit the quality and level of expertise that we are looking for whenever we launch a product. So if it’s an olive oil, ora mustard or a vinegar, we always make sure that everything we are procuring is of the best quality that we can find. We do that from our mustard seeds to our vine-gars and to our oil. As we process through the flavoring, a lot of what most people see from our boutiques in Dijon or in Par-is, our fresh from the pump mustards –from the truffles to the Sauternes wine– the rosemary honey – anything along that line, that my counterpart is in Europe and our R&S team which is based out ofChevalier. They are the ones that develop those mustards and they figure out flavor profiles and how they work as well as how it goes. Whatever is developed for the jar and is not a fresh from the pump product is going through what we see as trending, what are we thinking of for flavor profiles, what plays well with the mustard? We don’t want to create flavor profiles that are just out there and then they don’t taste well or play well with others. We go about that process the same way. Quality ingredients, how do we source them and how it tastes from day 1 to 50 to 150? It’s a really cool process and unfortunately, I don’t get to be a part of it as much as I would like to, but anytime that I’m in France – I do get to see what we’re going through and what we’re doing. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to travel this year.
AM: What is the difference between the mustards in the glass jars and the ones in the sandstone jars which are quite lovely to look at?
CHEF BC: The sandstone jars are our fresh from the pump jars. Those jars include mustards that do not contain any of our sulphites or anything along those lines. They are fresh and usually depending on the one it is, some are made from vinegar and some are made from wine. The spice in the fresh from the pump tend to be more intense and the flavor is a bit more intense that that which is in the glass jar. The sandstone jars are a whole other story of themselves. The manufacturer who creates the jars has been with us for quite some time and all of the jars are hand-made. The labels are put on by hand as well. It’s a really amazing man that owns the jar manufacturing and he’s an amazing human being. The talent that they have at the manufacturing facility is amazing. The fact that the labels are straight and perfect every single time, it’s mindboggling. It’s a cool story and they do amazing pottery to begin with, but the fact that we have been able to partner with them for such a long time which has been about100 years is amazing. The process is cool too. I believe that they have 50 employees and 33 work on the actual pots or some-thing of that nature. I’ve been there twice now and have toured the facility and to see them in action and it’s just cool. Even the color picking process is cool to see as each one goes with a launch of a specific mustard. The green was rosemary honey mustard, black is black truffle, off white is white truffle. You can also buy them individually as well.
AM: That’s really cool to know too! So you’re the Lead Chef and the North American Mustard Sommelier for the brand. What does that involve and what do you do day to day?
CHEF BC: Basically, I eat a lot of mustard! I think in general for me, I not only spread the love of Maille with who we are and what we do but also spreading the love of mustard in general. Being a Mustard Sommelier and the way that title came about, when Antoine-Claude Maillefirst decided that he would launch these boutiques, he wanted to have a Mustard Sommelier in every single boutique so that there was a specialist that could talk about the mustards. Whenever people came in asking questions, they could learn about the differences. So in my position, it’s about knowing mustards but also going through and developing recipes. Utilizing a recipe that not only uses mustard for a sandwich but how we can use mustard in a donut, mashed potatoes or any form of cooking with it as a seasoning and not just using it as a condiment. Research – I do a lot of it to find out whatever I can about mustard in general and understanding that it is referenced all the way back to the Bible and it’s the oldest known condiment that we have discovered that has been around for 3,000 years that we are aware of that has been found in clay pots in Germany. Understanding that side of it as well and understanding the subtle differences of the different kinds of mustards that are out there and why Maille is better and better from a Dijon standpoint. Dijon isn’t necessarily better than French’s or then Dusseldorf – a lot of it is personal preference. I find that all mustard has a place and a use, it’s just a matter of utilizing them correctly and I dofind Dijon to be the granddaddy of them all and hands down my favorite style of mustard.
AM: In many ways, you’re kind of like a mustard historian?
CHEF BC: To an extent. I do what I can. I kind of figure out as much as I can about the brand and about mustard in general. Understanding the seeds – living in the Hudson Valley, I don’t grow mustard because I have access to it that’s wild everywhere which is always awesome. I can walk anywhere in the fields and there is wild mustard strewn about. It’s being able to go and find that and to understand that I have friends who are wild foragers and they take me out in the woods with them to look for mushrooms and mustard greens and things like that. Again, it's making sure that I understand how it works so that when people ask me those questions, I can answer it to the best of my ability and be as educated as humanly possible.
AM: So what is the difference between mustard and Dijon?
CHEF BC: Ok, so Dijon is a mustard. Basically there are a ton of mustards in the world. You have your Dusseldorf, your hot mustards and then you have your Frenchs yellow which started originally as a creamy salad dressing. French’s was started because the man that created it thought there needed to be a form of mustard that was in the US. What actually sets Dijon apart from those other mus-tards is that it doesn’t have to come from Dijon, it just started there.
AM: Wow, I thought that Dijon was like Champagne.
CHEF BC: No, it’s not protected in that way. If you look at the back of Dijon mustard and if you look at the back of Maille, it has a simple set of ingredients. Some other Dijon mustards will include turmeric and other kinds of spices which isn’t really a true Dijon. As long as it follows by a certain set of guidelines, it can be considered a Dijon. So it has to be made with black or brown mustard seeds. That is the main mustard driver. Predominant-ly, you will find Dijon made out of brown mustard seeds because black is very volatile and they tend not to transfer very well in terms of shipping them. Then you use water, vinegar and salt. Originally Di-jon was made with verjuice which was the first press of the grape but it’s a very expensive ingredient and most people don’t make it with this anymore. We have made anniversary editions that have this in it, but it’s a lot harder to control and it’s like wine so it fluctuates a little more then vinegar. So water, vinegar and salt are crushed together. So it has to have 22%of that dry extract when all the water is removed and it can’t have more than 2%of the outer shell. So when you cut open a mustard seed, even if it’s brown – it’s still yellow on the inside. So think about mustard powder, they all look the same in general as the powder does. But it has to have less than 2% of that shell in there. Again the seeds can come from anywhere not just Dijon. One of the things that we do with Maille is that all of the seeds are non-GMO and we go through an extensive process to figure out which seeds are utilized. Other then that, that’s Dijon. So you take the seeds and you soak them in this water/vinegar/salt mixture so that they plump up and do their thing. They’re then processed to either be ground or in other ways as well. What ends up happening is throughout the process and especially with Dijon, that some of the spice is still intact. So when the grinding process is happening, the temperature is taken of the stones so that it’s not getting too hot and breaking down that spice. So heat is the enemy of heat if that makes sense. Especially when it comes to mustard. The way that we go about processing our seeds and the cool thing about it is that whenever you eat a spoonful of Maille, it will never make you cry or make you sweat. It will kind of come up through your olfactory senses and give you a little bit of a burn and dissipate back through your palette and that’s why we were so big in the courts in the 1700/1800’sis because a lot of the aristocrats wore makeup during that time and had wigs and the last thing that they wanted to have happen is to sweat through their makeup and cry in front of the commoners. The fact that we didn’t make them sweat or cry was a big bonus because of the way we process, our recipe and our ability to give them a well rounded Dijon mustard that was not overpowering and could be used in a number of ways.
AM: There seems to be a similarity in that wine has varietals and that mustard has various Dijons and mustards. In the wine world, there are set times for harvesting and picking. Does that exist for mustard as well?
CHEF BC: Well, it’s very similar to wine to a certain extent because we do have to wait for the mustard itself to go to seed.
We have a very determined window. It’splanted in the Spring it’s beautiful and yellow. Especially if you’re in the countryside of France or in Saskatchewan in Canada. Once it turns brown, that’s when you’re harvesting it in the fall. So you will get noticeable differences in regions depending on where you’re buying your seeds from. The higher quality Dijon is in Saskatchewan and in Burgundy. A lot of that is soil, temperature and things of that nature just like it is in wine. It’s one of the reasons why I think that Dijon goes so well with your Burgundy dishes. Because those dishes are heavier and being able to have this mustard cut through that is great. But when it comes playing with the flavor profiles, this will come into play because some seasons create a spicier mus-tard seed than others and there may be a different blending process that may have to take place. Different varietals of wine vinegars can change due to the flavor profiles of the mustard as well. But it’s not as drastic as a ’97 Bordeaux or a 2004 one or being affected by the California wildfires for example. It’s not as intricate as that but it can have slight variations.
AM: Obviously we love mustard on sandwiches what are some non-traditional ways that people wouldn’t think of incorporating Maille with?
CHEF BC: So people always freak out about this as my go-to answer. Really high-quality vanilla ice cream and a scoop of the Old Style Maille mustard on top of it. We don’t cut the seed as much it plays well and it’s a little bitter but it has to be a good quality ice cream. Mustard and chocolate go really well together – spice, vinegar, salt all play well with chocolate. Put it into your chocolate cake because the vinegar works well with the chemical reactions in there as well. Most chocolate cake especially when you’re doing red velvet, it contains vinegar anyways. There is some form of white distilled vinegar in there so using a white Dijon mustard as a replacement for that is something that I have done a couple of times. Also utilizing it as a seasoning which is a big one for me.
Think of Dijon as the same thing as a soy sauce, Worcestershire or a sea salt to an extent. If you add a teaspoon to a dish, itdoesn’’t necessarily have to taste like mustard. The goal is to wake up flavors and to help elevate other flavor profiles with-in a dish. Adding in some to your braises like if you are working with a short rib. Put a tablespoon into your braising liquid as you’re reducing it or after you have reduced it and see the difference in how it pops. I have added it to breads, once again not for it to taste like mustard but to give it a bit of something that makes you notice it and that there is something in there. Then there are times when you want it to taste like mustard. So I have braised chicken thighs in a whole jar of our Old Style with a little chicken stock, braised and placed in the oven, pulled them out and then put them on top of polenta or mashed potatoes. It’s absolutely killer! It’s not overpowering and when you have the fat of the potato, the stock, the dark meat of the chicken thighs – it plays so well and tastes so good. There is literally not a recipe unless you’re talking about certain desserts that I wouldn’t put mustard into. I have converted my wife into this and she says that never in a million years would she think that she likes mustard as much as she does now. Every time I make dinner she asks if Maille is in there. 9 times out of 10 I do and if I don’t, she grills me and asks if it would have tasted better with it. So then I have to go through the process of why was it that I just didn’t want to put it in there because I had had it 17 times this week or was it because I just thought it wouldn’t benefit the dish or was it that we should just put it on top? She’s been a trooper!
AM: As we’re in the holiday season, what are 3 dishes that you would do that for?
CHEF BC: Honestly one of the things that I love Dijon in is mashed potatoes and it makes everything on the plate kind of pop. Again, you don’t have to put a ton of it but it elevates every other dish on there. It’s killer as a ham glaze with Barley Malt Syrup which I have become obsessed with lately and it’s a random pick up at the grocery store. It’s a really cool molassesy – nuttiness. Those 2, herbs and chopped garlic can be rubbed on the outside of your ham once it’s about ¾ of the way done and place it on top. Let it caramelize – killer. The given is double eggs and putting it in there. Love it in vegetables especially the Old Style. You can just roast Brussel Sprouts and tossing that in there at the very end. For Thanksgiving this year, did Old Style Pickled Onions with champagne vinegar and a little bit of lemon zest and some thyme about 15 table-spoons of Old Style because it’s delicious.I had 2 onions sliced thin and brought the liquid to a boil, poured them on top of the onions. I let that set. I roasted the Brussel Sprouts with some chopped chestnuts and put that on top of it and then caramelized the vinegar mixture and added my last-minute seasoning on the Brussel Sprouts. It’s super versatile, you can put it on your stuffing or anything that you want. I’ve made compound butters to rub under chicken breast and turkeys before roasting them with our Old Style and our Originale. Our horseradish is really killer as well. Especially on the side of your charcuterie board right?
AM: It’s about lunchtime and I’m starting to think about having some myself!
CHEF BC: In talking about Athleisure and what you guys stand for, I’ve recently lost about 65 pounds and I utilized mustard a lot because it was a way for me to cut back on things that I would usually use butter or oil for. I utilized the mustard to get that flavor profile and that creaminess that I would have normally reached for a stick of butter to do that. So I went to a table-spoon of Dijon to get that flavor and its really healthy and good for you. It’s an anti-inflammatory and it’s anti-bacterial and things along that line as well. It helped me a lot in that journey as well as a means to lose weight and to eat smarter.
AM: I didn’t think of mustard as an anti-bacterial before but thinking back to the story that we started with, that makes sense!
PHOTOS COURTESY | MAILLE
Hear Chef Brandon Collins on our show, Athleisure Kitchen - which is a part of Athleisure Studio, our multimedia companion podcast network! Subscribe to be notified when the episode drops. Listen on iHeart-Radio, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, AmazonMusic, Google Podcasts or wherever you enjoy your podcasts.
Read the Dec Issue #60 of Athleisure Mag and see Beyond the Condiment with Chef Brandon Collins in mag.
